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Efke/Adox Films: optimal sensibility.
#1
Hello,



First please excuse my bad english if there is any mistake... I am french.



I write here because I'm really interested in Efke/Adox films, but I have a big question:



what are the optimal sensibilities of this Films? On the french pages of your site, you say that is twice the sensibility writen on the box. But I find this really curious... and I read in an old page of the english website of fotoimpex that the kb25 was optimal at 20 Asa... So I would like to know all you can tell me about Efke films and there sensibilities... <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />



by the way, were can I found the developping time of these films in Tetenal Neofin Blau? (perhaps on the packing of these products? <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> )



Thank you very much. <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />
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#2
Hi Nil,



I don't speak French. So excuse my answer in rotten english. I'm a German. Welcome to Europe:-)



I do have quite a bit experience with Efke R50. Thus, I expose that film at 50ISO for development in Rodinal (1min pre-soaking, 7min in Rodinal 1+25/20?C, agitation every 15 seconds).



Unfortunately, development times shall differ since change to "Adox"-labeling. Fotoimpex didn't answer to this question yet sufficiently.



So: Try it out yourself (that's what Fotoimpex told us at the german side of this board) or call Berlin directly. They do have employees speaking french. Call for Amelie. She'll translate for Mirko, if he is at his desk.



But don't expect any explicit development times or information about sensitivity.



Just my personal experience.



Best regards and good luck,

Franz



(Mirko: Da ist jetzt Drehzahl angesagt! / Mirko: Go! Move your as*!)
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#3
well, wonderfull! <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />



I think it's quite better like this! It's good for me to have to do my own tests! <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' /> <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />



thank you for your answer. <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />
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#4
But keep in mind that you'll have to do your own tests again with every new batch of film.



I have different thoughts on quality.



Best regards,

Franz
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#5
Nil,



in order to clarify a bit the confusion caused by these various answers I am quickly summing up my statements from the german forum as what?s beeing reported here does not reflect the actual situation rather it is what some members of this discussion board simply assume has happened.



First of all to answer your initial question:



the efke/ADOX CHS film do not have actually twice the speed that is printed on the box.

I have to reread what Ameilie translated if this is the way it is understood by the consumer. The reason this information is out there is due to the fact that these single layer fine grain films cannot shield themselves very well against over-exposure like modern multi layer films do.

Most modern films are overrated so many photographers tend to overexpose their films because they think that what?s written on the box is actually twice the effective speed.

Also some camera manufacturers became aware of the film industries overrating and thus readjusted their built in lightmeters to rather over than underxpose the films. This produced better colour negatives and the average consumer drew the conlusion that "this camera makes better pictures than another".

Efke/ADOX films are NOT overrated like some modern films, they are close to the true speed printed on the box. So this is the important information that our text should contain.

Not overrated rather true speed but and thus under some circumstances twice the speed than OTHER films in OTHER boxes beeing labeled with the same speed IF YOU COMPARE THESE FILMS against each other.



Why do we publish this ?

Easy answer: If you now expose efke/ADOX CHS films with one of the cameras which tend to overexpose and maybe on top give it another F-stop because you assume the films behave like others your images will be totally overexposed and completely unusable. A rather underexposed efke/ADOX on the other hand is still usable while ofcourse also not perfect.



A perfect image is, obviously, perfectly exposed and developed.



Now to the slightly off topic answers to your questions by other forum members:



Every batch of film coated anywhere on the world in any given factory differs slightly from one to the other when it is fresh and then it ages differently. Some films are better in aging some are worse by recipe and then the different batches of any given film out of the same kind still age differently.

Obviously a more complex modern film recipe is more stable than a recipe from the 1950ies like the old ADOX formularies.



It happened to be that between the last films labeled efke R50 and the first films labeled ADOX CHS 50 there was a noticeable difference and those three users from the forum now take this as their proof to try to "campaign" against ADOX that we purposely changed something and for some strange unlogical reason betrayed the customers by not telling them.



This is nonsense. All that happend was that the two batches aged differently and thus showed a difference. Something which has happend many times before just no one noticed it or if maybe the internet was not presend by then so customers who noticed this never had a forum to use it for a campaign.



Now these customers are asking us to test every film and pusblish this data so they do not have to test themselves. This is in a way a good idea- as a matter of fact it is something I myself have proposed a few years ago in the context of Forte films. But we found that due to the different aging of an emulsion over the lifetime of a film it is not enough to test a film once. The emulsion in question for example was tested in march 2005 and it was perfectly fine even after artificial aging. Then over about 6 months the charakteristics must have fallen roughly 20% which they normaly do only over the period of 2 years. On this level the film now seems to have stabilised. Still this is within normal limits. If you take average pictures and use an average lightmeter you will not notice any of this because the variations in your chain as a whole (lightmeter tolerance, developer age, water, themometer accuracy, agitation etc.) are even larger than 20%. However If you work very carefully under standardised conditions or do a direct comparison you see this. And if you work the zone system and want to use a rather exotic film which is produced according to 1950ies recipes there is no way but testing every emulsion. This has always been like this and it will stay like this.



So as far as your films are concerned it will be the usual way. The first roll will come out so, so and then you extend or decrease your developing time and the following rolls will be fine if you keep them in the freezer or shoot them within one to two months.



If you repurchase next year there will be a different batch shipped and you need to readjust the developing time or exposure after your first roll once again.



We are thinking about a way how to measure, standardise and comunicate this but after all this effort has to be payed for too and we cerafully have to judge between product price increases and services given so there is no definite decision yet even though one of the forum members seems to have made it a personal goal to get me to change things from one day to the other.



Salutations du Berlin,



Mirko



PS j?arrive a comprendre la longue francaise, mais je prefere a repondre en anglais.
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#6
Thank you very much for your very complete answer, Mirko. <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />



I will soon buy some of these films on the fotoimpex website.



Joyfull Greetings <img src='http://forum.fotoimpex.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />
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#7
Hallo Nil,



You can try Moersch Finol too. It gives excellent results with all Efke/Adox films.



See more on:

http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/files/.../Finol.pdf



Have a fun and best regards from Budapest,

L?zl?
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